We are all Gazans

tool,

If you see so many anti-semitic remarks on Keld's column, I suggest you report them...there, instead of coming here and talking behind his back.

tool,

as usual you're completely wrong. I am not upset about false accusations, against me or Keld. He's been here a long time, he's still standing and so am I. It sounds to me more like the typical zionist apologist method of denying the truth, attacking the messenger and trying to change the subject.

Wheel  thanks for being such patient and civilized vs the typical loothsome games , This not the best time for bearing b**t     my stomach and I guess yours is sick enough of Gaza horrible scenes

Anti-semitism rose out of a nineteenth century belief that Semites are somehow inferior to Aryans. The warped anti-semitist thinking led to Hitler's treatment of the Jews of Europe. To use it to label somebody who is critical of the current Zionist warmongering state and its corrupt election campaign cheapens the term and waters down its impact when it is used correctly.

To use it to label somebody who is critical of the current Zionist warmongering state and its corrupt election campaign

Those people confused me with the ambigious use of this accusation  in all kinds of ordinary debates...... I didn,t live the WW2 and I am not sure about the reason or definition of antismitis , so I may believe from the debates on this site that anti-Palestinian genocide is the meant hate crime

No military is going to just attack a school just for no reason.

Nobody said they attacked it for no reason, they had a reason: it was filled with Palestinians.

Eric,

Disproven by who?  If that were even remotely trie the leaders of Israel at the time would be on trial for war crimes.  You see Israel and western governments have to follow rules.  If rules are broken then justice moves pretty swiftly.  The fact is that in the rules of war if you are using a civilian area for military operations it's no longer off limits.  I want to see this info about clearly marked UN centers in Lebonon too.  I can mark UN on top of my house but that doesen't make it under UN rule.

I think Eric is pointing to the this incident where Israel was taken to UN but thanks to US's veto (which is the only country that supports Israel on this issue) they never got fined....

Zmk this article makes my point. Hezbollah terrorists fired two or three Katyusha rockets and between five and eight mortars at Israeli soldiers near the Red Line.  The Irsaeli military came under fire from that area and they responded as they should have.

No military is going to just attack a school just for no reason.  If you have ever been in the military perticularly militaries styled like the U.S. or Israeli military.

Load of crap, ANYTHING GOES during war, the niceties are all propaganda.

my husband and I were an USAF family stationed at SAC bases mostly. You would have your pants scared off if you knew how many "mistakes" were made with nukes and hidden from the public for reasons of "national security". My arse they wouldn't lob stuff all over the place. In viet nam too. geesh-wake up, nobody said they did it for "fun" in he way any sane person would define "fun". They did it to drum up hatred against Hamas after a carefully managed pr war to make sure people thought Hamas was responsible for the occupiers actions(like eric tried to explain to the pants person) They attacked the school to prove there was no place that was safe. The UN told them the exact coordinates and who had been evacuated there. This was no mistake. its called state terrorism for a reason.

Psimon, In the same wiki article, I hope you have read UN investigation and responses from Amnesty international and Human rights watch.. Moreover, you do know that only US sided with Israel when UN General Assembly tried to penalize Israel?

Cyrano-

Well said. 

Eric-

You acknowledge that Israel willingly pulled out as a sign of good faith, yet it does not seem to carry any weight with you in terms of accepting the fact Israeli policy on the whole here in this conflict with Hamas migth not be the evil you think it is.   Why is that?  Every cease-fire has been broken by Palestinians.  Is that not worth considering in the grand scheme of how things might ever get better over there?

My solution: acceptance of what can and cannot be accomplished, and what the situation is currently, followed by negotiations.

Israel isn't going to move or be wiped off the map. Palestinians need to accept this.

Palestinians have been couped up for sixty years in refugee camps with no opportunities to move on with life. Israelis need to understand this. So do supposedly sympathetic countries, who as much as they might sympathize, would rather keep Palestinians in camps for sixty years than let them integrate into another society...

Once we get past those obstacles, it comes down to a price.

This just comes from a man who would rather think of the future than dwell on the past.

It,s obvious that Israel and Egypt cooperated in sealing Gaza so Israel can erase afew militants wrapped in huge civilian coat

Eric Albert:

Okay, assuming the Occupation, Apartheid are stopped, I would then assume that due to unfettered access by Hamas and the PLO, Israelies would be immediately be forced to escalate the process of clearing out dead Israeli bodies and repairing blown up buildings and roads.

How does the VIOLENCE stop? We can't go back in time and fix what should have happened. We can only move forwards from today.

Eric is just going to support Hamas and their belief system regaurdless of any efforts by Israel to mitigate.  He agrees with Hamas that Israel should be wiped out and should not exist.  Eric probably also believes that the terrorist that did the attacks in Mumbia were totally justified and the attacks on the WTC were brought on by the U.S.  Eric probably hasn't met a terrorist he didn't like.

Steve-

You are basically right.  I would say though that every effort has been made to provide relief and aid to the people of Gaza.  The West Bank has curtailed its terrorist activities and have a growing economy currently.  Palestinians have so much to offer the world.  They are the most educated and could turn their passion and wisdom into prosperous lives for current and future generations.  Israel has shown they are aboslutely willing to negotiate and work with them.  It has been COMPLETELY one-sided in who is desiring peace.  The day after the retaliation attacks by Israel began they sent relief aid into Gaza.  The US is willing to help Gaza. 

You say you want to look to the future, but perhaps that is just what is wrong...those who fail to learn from the past will have a perpetually doomed future.  For Israel to forget about more than a dozen broken cease-fire agreements is madness.  You wouldnt do that if your next-door neighbor had shot at you 12 times and each time promised not to.  You would want to live in peace with that neighbor, but its more important that you dont get yourself shot than you show liberals in the West how benevolent you are.

Steve: This just comes from a man who would rather think of the future than dwell on the past.

Precisely! Would that the players on all sides of this could develop this mindset!

Psimon, since when do you speak for Eric..................has someone spoken for you?  keep it civil.

...and there it is: the "America is imperalistic too" bombshell.

Yep, only supporters of America and Israel think alike. 

Comparing us to Nazi's huh...which Arab leader spent his days during World War II in Nazi Germany, praising the "work" being done concerning the "Jewish problem"?  The Grand Mufti. 

What about pulling out of Gaza was expansionary?  And of all the people in Israel to make that happen, was it not the great "Zionist war criminal" Ariel Sharon who made that happen?

You're talking loco, and no one likes it, brosef.

Don't get me wrong on this JLP: I think the onus is on Hamas currently by the following reasoning:

If Hamas is peacible and the Israelis are peacible, negotiations can begin.

If Hamas is peacible and Israel still desires to starve them and deny them aid because they are simply mean Zionists: they have access to a weapon greater than any military might they could bring to bear on the situation: shame. Get reporters in there, write daily blogs, etc. Shame worked for civil rights across the globe. I suspect it can work here as well, and much more effectively than a few dozen home made rockets.

If Hamas is not peacible and Israel is not peacible, then you're screwed regardless.

If Hamas is not peacible and Israel is peacible, Israel is still going to defend itself.

I would also note that I would never *forget* the past. I just wouldn't dwell on it and let it consume me.

How is Israel not peacible in this situation?  Because there are SOME Jews who hate and want to kill Palestinians?  The Israeli govt has gone above and beyond to make peace and keep to it.  Terrorism is the problem.  Cowards who believe "so much" in their cause that they wear masks when on camera and chanting "death to Israel" but as soon as their fellow Palestinians are blown up in a bomb dropped on a rocket cache (that Israel called ahead and warned would be coming so the innocent deaths would be avoidable) that they had stored in an apartment building, they take off their masks and weep for the CNN reporters.  All death is a tragedy.  We get that.  ISrael gets that.  But who weeps for the never-ending, relentless barrage of rockets and suicide bombers Israel has had to deal with for decades?  We wouldnt be able to take that in America.  WE're not strong enough I fear.  But we would be completely in the right if Mexican terrorists were shooting rockets into San Diego and responded as Israel has.  THAT there can be NO debate about and must be internalized.

How is Israel not peacible in this situation?

I'm not trying to say whether Israel is peacible or not. I'm showing that by my line of reasoning, the Gazan's only way out is peace, regardless of whether Israel is peacible.

Steve: I would also note that I would never *forget* the past. I just wouldn't dwell on it and let it consume me.

As I stated above, that's they key to resolving any conflict: moving forwards towards resolution without payback (history) as part of the equation.

Learning from history, obviously, is important, but without fresh thinking and a genuine interest from all parties to resolve disputes, all conflict is doomed to continue.

If we could erase the history component from other conflicts (Iraq, Afghanistan), solutions could be found since erasing "history" would effectively erase ideology.

Eric Albert is right in that ideology is a key component which gives us our sense of "history" and is the key force behind conflict.

I also find it impossible to take Albert's position while wishing for a more immediate resolution, since What we would do is change our ideology while not demanding the same of the radicalized (Arab fundamentalist) elements who are currently determined to destroy us. Also not taken into account is that these radicalized people are woefully undereducated; thus they, even more than we, act more on emotion (ideology) rather than reason.

My hope is that Obama will make a fundamental effort to try to help our country become a member nation of the world community rather than imperialist in charge. This shift would have to be gradual in order for mutual trust to develop. (history, ideology, weighed against "changing" behavior)

Roadlesstraveled,  I am in such relational symetry with you............have been doing my own reading and learning.  I railed against the truth for a bit,...........but it has become so very heart breakingly clear to me now.  I can not accept someone's suffering becuase some one who suffered now has the power to cause suffering...........this is wrong.  American's beliefs have been so schewed over decades and decades.  How can anyone see this with their eyes and then wish it to continue.

Israel is wrong.  their lies make it even worse.

So is Israel supposed to sit there as a terrorist intity attacks shopping malls schools and resturants with impunity.  What should Israel do? 

You simply wish to ignore the situation don't you?  Your comment only picks up the "terrorist" bull@!$%#.  When it serves the purposes of those posting to say Palestinians, they say Palestinians, but when it serves thier purpose to say Hamas, they say Hamas. 

Israel has shown the world that they are sufficientyly armed and trained to take care of themselves and if anyone even dreamed of bringing it to them with comparable weapons, the U.S. would take to the skies on thier behalf without so much as an invite and you know it................and well they should if such an overt attack took place against Israel.

That is the point..................Israel is the big dog here pickin on a puppy, stand down and quite killing civilians with such overt intent! they are proving the point against them that they are cleaning out the last vestage of Palestinian land to live free and in THEIR Israel....................but you just can't kill people to have waht you want.........or can you?

intity

entity.

What would be left of the Palestinians if they had been just a people...............?  Israel is very powerful now.  they have chosen to kill civilians, that is not debatable to anyone with a brain and eyes.  We have supplied them with weapons that are accurate, and the U.N. gave them coordinates................just how much denial can one nation have that is also advanced.

We will be Gazans soon if this stands.

Israel calls ahead before they bomb a site to allow women and childrent and non-combatants to leave.  This is a fact.  They dropped leaflets in Southern Lebanon before bombing in 2006.  But this seems to leave no impression on you KL, or any other self-loathing liberal Westerner.  Israel is not perfect.  Civilians die in Gaza, this is true.  But like all liberal solutions and condemnations, the ROOT of the problem, the REAL CAUSE of the problem, is put aside in favor of emotional responses to the periphereal results. 

Hamas is who the Palestinians elected.  Hamas is who attacks Israel.  The lives of any child or innocent lost is tragic.  No one disagrees.  If this was the first or even 7th time this had happened exactly the same way it might still be unclear about the way to stop the fighting.  But by now, any sane adult who cannot see that if Hamas stopped shooting rockets, people would stop dying on both sides of the border, then you never wanted to see the truth to begin with and at the 80th time of a conflict like this you'll still be blaming Israel.

But this seems to leave no impression on you KL, or any other self-loathing liberal Westerner.

At least we know why John supports Israel so blindly. He feels it is the "patriotic" and "conservative" stance to take. It's ok to excuse the killing of innocent women and children, as long as it makes you feel more "patriotic" about yourself.

Go Israel! We ned you to make us feel better about America!

Mars-

Great observations...is what I would say if I meant that.

You would rather be nice than right.  I wouldnt.  I like things like the truth, and the truth is that liberals in this country tend to resent any country with great power, especially their own and Israel.  Not all, but most.  Sorry for the generalization, but I felt I owed you one with your "patriotism" drivel.  It would be much easier for you to sleep at night if that was the only reason people support Israel I suppose. 

Blindly?  I may be the Ray Charles of Israel supporters, true.  I guess when I hear the truth, thats all I need.  You both see and hear it, yet still reject it.

hey pants!

I have explained several times just what an impression is being left on me.  If it doesn't fit with your self indulged conservative eastern (I just went the opposite of your comment, for flavor) tastes..............well, tough.

My whole point has been very clear.  I don't give a @!$%# one way or another who has "title" or "entitlement" to the @!$%#ing land!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Israel is big enough and supported enough to tolerate what they asked for when they marched in and said "This is our land".  Regardless of who was there when they went "back". they also enjoy the relations with the U.S. @!$%#in A, the badest dog on the block.  So that is saying something.  Now, remember that Israel has dis'ed thier big buddy several times, treated americans with distain on several flagrant occasions, and still there we are............buddies.  both phyically and monitarily.  So don't give me this @!$%# that I am some "liberal" this or that who "hates" poor Israel who will pushed intot the sea by thier enemies, cause the money says otherwise...........and the armed Israeli Army is the bad ass in that neighborhood of the world.

I am simply saying...............if Israel wishes to be considered this legitimate democratic power in the middle east, the they have to act like it by REFRAINING FROM KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN SO BLATANTLY.  You are what you eat.  And Israel is munching on some big time American weapondry..................now, can no longer claim "poor us".

cause its bull@!$%#.

You would rather be nice than right.

You know VERY little about me.

I like things like the truth, and the truth is that liberals in this country tend to resent any country with great power, especially their own and Israel.

You like the "truth" while you claim that two near-powerless countries have great power? What a joke. Israel would be wiped off the face of the planet within a week if it weren't for protection. We can barely defeat a third-world country with no military. Oooooh, so powerful! We got our asses handed to us for years by a bunch of civilians in the desert. Oh, and don't forget that super-advanced country, Vietnam, who made us ineffective in that war.

Blindly?  I may be the Ray Charles of Israel supporters, true.  I guess when I hear the truth, thats all I need. 

You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the ass. You just invent "truth" and wave it around like a flag.

Pathetic.

Cursing helps your arguments.  Trust me. 

It is abundantly clear now that you simply do not know the history of this conflict, which has been going on in one form or another since the time of Israel's return to the Promise Land after being freed from Egypt.  I'm shocked that someone with your vocabulary and penchant for the truth would not be aware of the thousands of years these two people-groups have been fighting. (And actually, many of them do come from the same bloodline of Abraham (through Ishmael) and Jacob (through Esau).

I did hope you knew a little about the past 100 years at least and how Jews simply moved back to the region known as Palestine and bought up unused, unwanted land and began settling/farming/building economies that the Palestinians originally particiapted in. You and the Palestinians might not like the 1948 partition, but the fact remains that there were at that point more than enough Jews in the land and more than enough hatred from the Arabs to warrant a two-state solution.  Israel's first act in 1948 was to reach out to their Palestinian neighbors and offer peace and co-existence....the Arabs amassed a 5-army annihilation squad and set out to drive Israel into the sea.  America provided none of the guns or support in that war for independence, but the Jews won on their own.  In proceeding wars (Six Day, for example) they claimed new land that they eventually GAVE BACK, even after being attacked.  They've signed peace treaty after peace treaty.  They've given relief aid and millions of dollars to help the Palestinian children and women who arent responsible for the evilness of their fathers and husbands.  Every time...EVERY time Israel is attacked anew.

Sure they have had help from America...we do that with democracies who promote freedom.  The only place where Arabs vote in free elections and have civil rights in the entire Middle East is Israel. 

But none of this matters to you and will be dismissed.  I admit this is a brief and non-exhaustive overview of some key points in this conflict.  The truth will set you free, but at least shoot for good manners, Mars.

Cursing helps your arguments.  Trust me.

Seriously? "Ass" offended you that much.

It is abundantly clear now that you simply do not know the history of this conflict, which has been going on in one form or another since the time of Israel's return to the Promise Land after being freed from Egypt.

In which Israel had to invade and conquer the Canaanites in order to "claim" the "Promised Land" which was "promised" to them by an imaginary figure in the sky. It doesn't seem like they had a birthright to it then, so why do they now? Oh yeah, because God said so, how cute.

Sure they have had help from America...we do that with democracies who promote freedom.

And nations we need to exist in order to "fulfill" Biblical phrophecies that our delusional citizens believe must happen in order for Jesus to return and take his sheep to heaven.

The truth will set you free, but at least shoot for good manners, Mars.

I couldn't care less about manners when discussing an issue like this. Nothing about this topic depends on me being kind to you, that is your personal preference, and I couldn't care less.

If you gave a shoot (see how I didn't use words that make you cringe) about manners, you would realize that your opinion is an opinion, and not truth. Yet you want this discussion to be had on the terms of you being right, and any other viewpoint being wrong. This isn't church, so don't expect to come here and have your delusions validated.

 Pants

 Israel's first act in 1948 was to reach out to their Palestinian neighbors and offer peace and co-existence. 

I do believe you are using this "opinion" as a statement of fact...............when this is actually part of the foundation which Israel uses against Palestinians, and why Palestinians are being ruthlessly evicted............if you have a desire to go back ???????how @!$%#ing far? go................... I do not speak to history and never have.....my argument is about the atrocity of TODAY. 

http://icyn22ro.newsvine.com/_news/2009/01/03/2271005-people-and-the-land-the-story-of-a-people-under-occupation  

your so all fired up about be "fair"?              then spend 53 minutes on this.........or just stay rooted in your preferred history, but at least then we discuss exactly what 1948 was about.

I AM NOT A GAZAN. I don't strap bombs to myself, fund terror, destroy an economic and agricultural infrastructure, and proclaim my neighbor nation needs to be erased from the map.

Do us a favour and stop stereotyping the innocents of Gaza based on the actions of a few. If they all strapped bombs to themselves they wouldn't be there would they?

right...............radical Islam/Hamas.  some rockets that have killed how many?

Israel supplied with the coordinates of civilian refuge,  ...................bombed it.

right.

No abe don't YOU get it? Zionism is racist and they don't want no stinkin Arabs--from the start--that was their plan-get rid of the Arabs. And don't go all military family on me. Every generation of my family has fought in every stinkin war.

They need other countries to back them or else they WOULD just wipe them away--hence they need to play PR games and manipulate opinion carefully , least the have another Qana fiasco.

They have sure bulldozed plenty away--including the living--so they do not have anything but race hatred going for them which sadly we pay for as Americans who are not eligible to be Israeli citizens unless we are Jewish.

We have heard how our sec of state to be's dad speaks about the Arab civillians.No excuses anymore.

cause they are blood thirsty sonsabi*#h$.

Who?    they are the killers of school children I guess because Iran didn,t commit massacres in Palestine like the true thugs did since 1948

swear if you must, just don't make it personal big Al.................this is a discussion not a bar room where the big guy gets to flex his muscles on the drunk squirrls.

I suppose the Palestinians should just ............what...........beg to be allowed to leave and wonder the world for antoher home?  or as Israel seems to want...........just die quietly, without defending themselves?

there is a video here, on newsvine, that shows a palestinian man standing in front of his families home, a large castle like place, and he says his family has lived there for 200 years.........................you oughta go see it.  then tell me how terrible the PEOPLE of Gaza are.

by the way..............I think the U.S. had a few manipulative things to do with that whole democracy thing, and wanted the Fatahs (is that what they were called?) out?  What did the U.S. want out of this? do you know?

Eric comments like that show you hate didnt your parents teach you to judge people by there actions and not by there skin color, national background, sex yadda yadda.

didnt your parents teach you to judge people by there actions and not by there skin color, national background, sex yadda yadda.

Big Al, your parents failed you in the same regard.

we have all seen the unedited versions of the attacks by the Israelis on the UN schools that they had GPS coordinates for. In Europe and US they are really cleaned up, but still grotesque. Who are you threatening with a big fat bullet? THE ISRAELI TERRORIST BULLIES?

by there actions and not by there skin color, national background, sex yadda yadda.

You don't understand the term Zionist in it's present usage and context?Aren't we writing here about actions?...well some us are and others are attempting to discredit/deride this dialogue with propaganda. Trolls?

your off topic Al.

Hamas always uses the populace for there own ends be it mosques or lets say ambulances, schools and hospitals

Did you see militants inside schools and hospitals by eyes ?     UN spokes denied completely the presence of any militants inside or outside UN school....... so this assumption is the cheap excuse Israel used to offer to hide its crime of targeting the crowded places like schools and hospitals to ensure achieving the highest casualties and in targeting ambulances to guranttee that the wounded will die

I didn,t see a one militant among killed on TV after the third day of raids 'after killing Hamas leader''  all I see allover the last 48 hours are shredded mutilated kids .....So it,s all about the opportunity Israel grabbed to kill the largest number of Palestinians

The UN is full of @!$%# and most american know this...

History can not be erased or changed read it learn it love it.

Sure , it,s the Hisory of stealing the land by initiating movement of immigration into Palestine in 1880 by European Jews and convert khazars , then Britain that has no right to give anything, gave the land of others to another

sounds like the Romans

The UN is full of @!$%# and most american know this...

It's funny that you say this, because the U.N. gave Israel their land. By your standards (and those of "most Americans") Israel should not exist because the U.N. is full of @!$%#.

Let me guess, you agree with them when their action justify your beliefs and they are full of @!$%# when they stop you from waging war on brown people.

When the UN was created those people do not have the mentality of today's dimwits. I don't judge people by the color of there skin only by there actions so please stop with brown people... 2nd thing that irks me is they want to strip all small arms from civilian populations around the world so only military have firearms... hmmm sounds like the Nazi's The UN is a @!$%#ing joke that we all make fun of here amongst ourselves here in our USofA I for one think they have completely become useless they sure as hell don't do much of anything.

Big Al,

Due to your lack of any coherent reason, I'm going to have to ignore you now. I don't like debating with children or delusional radicals.

Good luck.

Whatever I dont care if you dont agree or disagree with me bottom line is Hamas is the problem.

delusional radical huh that's a dick thing to say considering you dont even know me.

delusional radical huh that's a dick thing to say considering you dont even know me.

I can only judge you by your own words.

Eric,

How nice is it to not have to blindly justify the war crimes of a nation simply because you were taught you had to? I love it.

I'm glad that I don't have to go out of my way to remain ignorant of the facts just to excuse my blind allegiance to a nation I know nothing about.

ONE JEWISH STATE? you forgot the USA? I know Israel gets more of my tax money than US veterans do.Why is that id we are not a Jewish State? I can't take it . Zionist/Jewish which ever one fits Israel's needs for the day. But if I use the wrong one I get the special name for racism only for people who don't like zionism. What is the name for attacks against people who are not jewish or zionists? Its their own fault? Terrorist? what?

You won,t like it if it,s on your door

read the story of Daniel in the lions den--maybe the Palestinians will still be there even after all of Israels crimes and bad karma,

That was sweet Abe 8) MSNBC and CNN are bad they dont even try to be even..

Again I ask you, your solution?

What false assumptions have I made?  Be specific.  You are just saying people are wrong, but then offer no facts to back up your claims.  You're a classic liberal debator.  No soltuions and no facts.  All feelings and emotions.

Abe-

The only facts you need are those from the sweet, wise lips of EA.  After all, he posted this article on the internet so its gotta be true.  Don't waste him time asking for proof or details.  It detracts from his emotions-based hyperbole. 

No one reading this can disagree with the fact that if Palestinians and Hamas said "Give us peace and we will punish any who shoot rockets at you from our lands" and followed through on that for any time longer than 6 months, this situation would change right then and there.  Maybe it wouldnt be the perfect one, but it would be a better one and would change immediately.

Have you considered that the power of shame is vastly more effective when you don't offer a violent response, useless or not, to every provocation?

See Martin Luther King, Jr, Mahatma Gandhi, etc.

That sucks Eric I hate seeing any innocent life lost its tragic. The loss of 1 life is a tragedy 8( I don't know what holds for the future of that region but its not going to be pretty.

Eric, you still have offered no solution.  Please stop with your rhetoric until you propose one.  Nothing you say matters if you have no course of action.

eric you are banking on everyone sharing your utopian views of "social and democratic states". Sorry, two-thirds of the world enjoys despotism and anarchy because there is power and control to be gained and selfish ambition to be catered to. Times will not change until people's hearts change and that is an internal process, hence the desire for spiritual goodness. Look honestly about you and see which religious based culture (as all really are) has done the best to raise up the equality of man and provide the best opportunities for quality of life for it's citizens.

Education. To the truth of the smoke and mirrors. The lies. Making it personal for them through empathy.Getting to know your neighbor. And their kids.

It starts in your own community first. This is a community. Newsvine. With much education needed by the masses.

Find your enemies and draw them close. Understand their sickness of hate. Why?

Many have been greatly deceived and manipulated,coerced under duress and ignorance, to believe that the bottom line is "Time is money". Money is a lie.

Wealth is knowledge of the true value of humanity and the earths resources,an inalienable right for all.Affirmation and validation.

Educate.Yourselves and others. Get off the hamster wheel.

How can it be achieved?  You have to take out those who doesnt understand why its important to play nice.  Let them kill each other, those smart ones would walk away from it.  Those strongest will win the war.  When all is done, the strong will seek out the smart ones or either kill them too.  The smart ones will always find a way to outsmart the brawns.  In the end, the last man standing is the smart ones who understands that war is stupid.

Ever wonder why malays  walked out to the smaller islands of East Asia?  And why they are peaceful people?

The maylay s are peaceful as long as you are a Muslim. People are being torched over on those Indonesian ISlands for not being Muslim.

Arcturas,

You have made the mistake of asking a radical left winger to justify their claims and beliefs with a step by step solution.  They live in a world where they think if everyone just talks to each other and follows some "social standard" that world equality, no classes, and world peace will arise.  The fact is that there is no way to promulgate that following.  So, in the meantime it is up to people like me and you to find real solutions while recognizing the fact that evil actually exists in this world.

Waiting for the magic solution and it should be more urgent than ''educating social standards and democracy'' and hope it is not the usual solution from those who are basking in luxury in front of computers and chewing words like :  ''Let them kill each other''  or ''let Israel  erase  the rest of Plestinians''

Hamas was organized with the help of agents provacatuers working hand in hand with the CIA and Mossad. Antagonists. Provacators.

Uhm maybe on your planet Teo.  Hamas was developed out of the Muslim Brotherhood not Mossad. 

Well ,unless your on mars...no carol...do your homework...or do I also have to do that for you....

The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

Thanks to the Mossad, Israel's "Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks", the Hamas was allowed to reinforce its presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, Arafat's Fatah Movement for National Liberation as well as the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression and intimidation

Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

"In 1984, Ahmed Yassin was arrested and condemned to twelve years in prison, after the discovery of a hidden arms cache. But one year later, he was set free and resumed his activities. And when the Intifada (‘uprising’) began, in October 1987, which took the Islamists by surprise, Sheik Yassin responded by creating the Hamas (The Islamic Resistance Movement): "God is our beginning, the prophet our model, the Koran our constitution", proclaims article 7 of the charter of the organization."

The Hamas had built its strength through its various acts of sabotage of the peace process, in a way which was compatible with the interests of the Israeli government. In turn, the latter sought in a number of ways, to prevent the application of the Oslo accords. In other words, Hamas was fulfilling the functions for which it was originally created: to prevent the creation of a Palestinian State. And in this regard, Hamas and Ariel Sharon, see eye to eye; they are exactly on the same wave length

http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_hamas2.html

Analysis: Hamas history tied to Israel

United Press International 06/18/02: Richard Sale

Original Link: http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r

"Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon immediately vowed to fight "Palestinian terror" and summoned his cabinet to decide on a military response to the organization that Sharon had once described as "the deadliest terrorist group that we have ever had to face."

Active in Gaza and the West Bank, Hamas wants to liberate all of Palestine and establish a radical Islamic state in place of Israel. It is has gained notoriety with its assassinations, car bombs and other acts of terrorism.

But Sharon left something out.

Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official."

ever read jack london? "Diable"--sometimes the dog turns on the abuser.

"Gaza only exists in so much as Israel allows it to exist, and in return, Gaza fires rockets randomly at civilians."

"Ma father once told me you do not bite the hand that feeds you, in this case, this is exactly what hamas is doing."

You just summed it up perfectly, why they fight back, "Gaza only exists in so much as Israel allows it to exist." In your warped world, Palestinians must take whatever scraps Israel throws their way. These are human beings, not animals. Would you sit there and take it, and not fight back?  

Isabella that is just silly. Isreal occupied gaza for many years. international uproar at constant suicide bombers pressured israel to allow gaza to have self rule and self elections. Israel knew at the time that this area was only going to be used to stage attacks against israel which is exactly what is happening.

and would i sit there and take it. probably not. but would i set out to kill their civilian population? also probably not.

Israel supplies nearly everything to Gaza. The water, electricity, money for their government. in turn they get rockets. Seems to me that Gaza needs to learn to stand on its own if it wants to be independant.

Israel supplies nearly everything to Gaza. The water, electricity, money for their government.

That's the problem, Mike, they don't. They're systematically starving and depriving the people of Gaza of the basics of life, water, food, fuel, medical care.

Because hamas continuously is attacking them with rockets. If hamas was to spend that money on building the infrastructure instead of rockets and training bomb makers, they may be able to become more self sufficient. Also, the rest of the world is more likely to help when they see that you have real goals in mind and not just giving the peole barely enough to survive then blaming israel.

carol why do Europeans think they should own the middle east--colonialism was shown for what it is-disaster--a long time ago.

Palestinians are a bit busy trying to survive the cleansing that is taking place in their homeland....................can't do any expelling as they are being expelled, we are actually asked to look at the CURRENT reality..............Israel is killing the only future Palestine has, its children.

open to your comments on which piece of what i wrote is a "lie lie lie"? 

and please do not respond with something like "all of it" as that just kills any sort of decent discussion...

truth.............take the time to read the thread, you bring up the same @!$%# that has been answered.  you drag the conversation backwards and your questions are already posted in other comments ...................or is that your intention?